The LGBT+ community is facing an inclusion gap. Let's change this together.

How do you identify?

I identify as male, cis, gay.

Where do you feel at home?

I feel at home when I'm with my friends, the people I like and who I know like me as well, and that could be anywhere. I feel at home at IKEA, for example, thanks to its diversity, equality and inclusion policy.

Can you give an example of what your daily life was like before coming out? Do you feel that much has changed?

Very, very much. I lived in a prison. Looking over the shoulder. I suffered a lot of prejudice, a lot of bullying from colleagues at school. The way I spoke, the way I moved...that forced me to constantly watch myself. Since I came out of the closet (a term I don't like), everything has changed.

What was that “coming out of the closet” process like, from when you found out about your orientation until you decided you were going to get out of prison?

I always say the closet door wasn't opened, it was broken into. I didn't have a plan, I didn't know how to approach the subject with friends and family, but I fell in love. And when starting a relationship, I realized that I couldn't hide it anymore. I was 25 years old.

Did you feel your core family and close friends understood you?

My group of friends accepted me very well. Nothing changed. They told me that they already suspected, but that they were waiting for me to say something.  It was difficult for my mother to accept it at first, but today everything is back to normal. We talk, we play, I share my intimate thoughts... everything is more relaxed. My father, who died in the meantime, never accepted.

So you felt that your core family and friends also had their own process and that afterwards the relationships between you became stronger?

Yes. My mother had to process that information, but our relationship ended up improving. It became more transparent, without secrets and without prisons.

What do you think the people around you could have done to make you feel more included?

I think they could have been a little more sensitive because we're all different. This is why I don't like the term "coming out" very much. I think we should feel free to be whoever we want.  Because it's as if we had to ask the world for permission to do so. Being homosexual is just one feature of mine. It doesn't define who I am. I am many things, I have a whole world inside, and I have the right to feel part of something. And to have the same opportunities as anyone else.

And do you feel that right now?

Right now, yes, but it wasn't always like that. I've always worked in small companies, where that feeling of belonging wasn't so easy. At IKEA, I feel it's different. That we are all treated the same, no matter what.

Internally and externally?

Regarding customers, when they have some prejudice, it's more because of my nationality. They realize immediately that I am Brazilian and, sometimes, it happens. But it's not the rule, it's the exception. We are in the right track!

How is your professional life now?

My professional life nowadays is very quiet. I am proud of my path, and I feel very good at IKEA, precisely because I feel included and supported. No need to hide, a trauma that dragged me since childhood.

What are you dreaming about right now?

I dream of many things, but within the context we are talking about, I dream of equality. With a future where the expression “coming out of the closet” ceases to exist. That everyone can be who they are, without asking anyone's approval. A straight guy doesn't have to go to his family and announce that he's straight. It is fully assumed that he is. It should be like that with everyone.

What is your best inclusion memory?

My best memory of inclusivity was when I told my friends I was gay, and how they reacted. They hugged me. I felt that I belong, and that finally all my friends would really get to know me.

Do you feel that from then on you managed to be your true self?

It's a work in progress. I had to hide for many years, and that left marks on my personality.

At IKEA do you feel like you can be yourself?

Definitely! I have the full support of my peers, and I don't feel the need to control myself or hide who I am. The relationship with the people I work with is very positive, and a lot is due to me being able to be who I am, without any kind of refuge.

Are there any other memories you want to share?

I can single out a very negative one. Back in my school days, my classmates would literally say “Why are you close to me? I don't want to be close to you”, such was the stigma. These are memories that still live with me, even though they happened to people who are no longer part of my life. We are social beings, and I just wanted to fit in. To be stopped like that is very hard.  It is important to mention that I had no reference of a gay person in my life who was a recognized, successful person, who I could lean on. It took many years and a lot of therapy for me to understand that being gay is being equally worthy of being loved and recognized.

Do you feel that currently there are more references?

Yes, and this is very important so that young people and families can deal with this in a healthier way. There is still a lot of prejudice, but we are finally starting to see the light. I hope that this light becomes the majority, and that we can freely be who we want to be.   Is it important for these references to be present since childhood? Yeah, exactly. Today there are many people coming out publicly – sportspeople, actors, politicians. And these people serve as a reference for children, especially, to be able to identify themselves. “This person is like me and he got here. I can get there too”.

Do you feel that it is no longer a taboo subject for you?

That's correct, nowadays I have no problems with that. I speak openly with anyone and if the person doesn't like or accept it, patience! It's who I am and no one is going to change me. If they accept it, that's great, we can develop a relationship. If they don't accept it, it's a matter of educating themselves or staying away. Whenever I talk to someone, they immediately realize that I'm gay. I know that this is also a stigma, but it is something that no longer causes me harm. If they ask me questions, especially my female friends who are curious and ask questions, I explain without reservation.

Do you believe that if people are well informed and see their questions answered since childhood, situations like yours can be avoided?

Yes, I think it's important. I don't have any children in my circle, but I have a friend's child who asks her these questions and she comes to me to find out how she should reply. We talked about it and, regardless of their sexual orientation, that child will feel supported and protected.

Do you have any concrete suggestions of what large companies can do to improve inclusion?

For example, through trainings or e-learnings, on an ongoing basis and not on a one-off basis. At IKEA, we celebrate IDAHOTB every year. The topic is discussed by everyone, and involves everyone. Even the ones who aren't so comfortable. It is essential that more and more people feel comfortable to approach this topic.

Big companies have an obligation to involve the community, in order to avoid that many children go through the experiences that I went through. Another of their obligations is inclusive recruitment. Recruit more  LGBTQIA+ people, to further normalize the situation, and for this to cease to be a topic.  

How do you identify?

I identify as a male, gay. And, by the way, my pronouns are he/his.

Where do you feel at home?

I feel at home when I'm surrounded by people I feel comfortable with. I have two homes, actually, because I live here in Lisbon but I also live in the North, so my family is a bit divided. I have my mother in the North and I have my sister here. I feel at home in both places.

How long have you been in Lisbon?

Since 2018. I came to get a master's degree in performing arts and ended up staying.

Can you truly be you in both places?

More or less. I feel that I am more at ease here in Lisbon. This is because when I came here to live, I didn't know anyone. Of the people I've met in the North, many don't know that I'm gay. I still have some reservations...

And do you feel that with your family there?

A little. My mother is one of the people who supports me the most. One day she came into the room and I was crying because I had had a very sad situation with an ex-boyfriend. She didn't understand why and I said: “Mom, I'm gay!”. I thought she was going to hate me or excommunicate me, but she didn't. She is a person who supports me a lot and she is from another generation (she was born in 1954) and, therefore, just the fact of being able to understand and support is a big step, I think, in our relationship.

Was it because you didn't want to have “the talk” that you didn't tell your mother right away?

I didn't tell my mother right away. I'd been stalling a little bit. But then, I said, “Damn it! My mother is my mother. I have to do it!”. And, yes, I was a little afraid of what she was going to say to me, because she was from another generation, but no. At the beginning it was a little complicated in some issues. There were some expressions she used that weren't the most accurate. But I was drawing attention and I was very amazed by how respectful she is. It was a process. She is always worried. She asks if I'm okay, if everything is going well. She didn't change a single drop from the way she acted with me before she knew it.

Before you told your mother, did you have any friends who knew? Who was the first person you told?

It was to my best friend at the time. She was amazing. And then she gave me a present, when I turned 18, for me to go to France to be with her (because, in the meantime, she moved there). She was the only person who knew. I was afraid of what my other friends would think, because some of the conversations they had made me unsure. “Should I share or not?”. When I ended up telling, everyone was very supportive.

Didn't you feel comfortable at that time to be truly you?

No. I already knew. I know I've identified as gay since I was thirteen. From seventh/eighth grade.

An age where we discover ourselves... The teenage years...

Yes. I only told my mom when I was 18. So I kept that to myself for about four/five years before I told her. And before I told my friends, I only told to that one. Nobody else knew. Then, little by little, I opened up, because people also showed that openness.

Were you afraid that people would stop acting towards you in the same way? What fears did you feel at the time for not telling?

I felt that they could act differently or look at me differently. Maybe they wouldn't stop being my friends, but somehow they could have made me feel left out. I was very happy because several friends of this group turned out to be members of the LGBT community.

Can you give an example of what your everyday life was like before coming out to your friends and family? Do you feel that much has changed?

It changed, because I am a very spontaneous and outgoing person, and I lived in constant restraint, especially with my sisters. I had a very assertive posture, always very straight... I felt a little robotic.

To match stereotypes?

There it is. To feel accepted. As I opened up more, I thought "No! I'm not being myself. I'm not that person." And coming to Lisbon helped that process.

Do you feel that joining IKEA also helped you feel more like yourself and to take another step in that direction?

Yes, I worked in places that had no policy in this regard and inclusion was not part of the culture. I had never worked at IKEA before. I know there are people who leave and then come back, but I had never worked before and it was a shock to me. Because the working environment I had before was zero compared to this one. I went through several difficulties with work and when I came here, I saw how people worked and the way we were included in the team where we worked, and that positively shocked me, because I thought: "How so? This is like this and I spent so long in that place where I felt bad and not well...”. Here I can be OK, I can be myself, that's exactly the expression.

Does the fact that you can be yourself also influence your process of accepting yourself as you are and making yourself known without fear of prejudice?

Yes. Without fear of prejudice, because being myself and being able to choose what I'm going to wear also reflects my personality. Just like the inspiration given by the people around me. When dealing with inclusive thinking people, I will naturally feel better. We all look for places where we can feel included.

So what is inclusion for you?

Inclusion is being in a context, personal or professional, where we feel part of. It's feeling that people understand our choices, our differences and that they don't put us aside just because we don't have the same opinion.

Do you feel that society is on a good path in this regard? Are you more accepted now?

I'm not that old, but “in my time”, around 12th, I felt it was slightly different. I think from 2018/2019 onwards, there's been a boom. I was mocked for my appearance, because I wore x or y, because I didn't shave and I was a "sissy". And in those kinds of things, I feel like it was very different then. I feel that now people are slightly more open, and I want to believe that we are heading towards a better future.

What is your best inclusion memory?

I have some.  I grew up with only my mother because my father passed away in 2011, I was 14 years old, but my relationship with my father was never very close. For this reason, I was afraid that if I shared with my mother that I was gay, she would exclude me. I no longer had a father figure and I didn't want to be without a mother figure. When I felt that my mother didn't make a fuss and accepted it, it was a great memory of inclusion.

How did you feel/discover your sexual orientation?

This story is very funny. Do you know that classic American movie story, where there is the popular one and the chubby boy? I was the chubby boy. But I was really chubby and and I fell in love with the popular girl. She was my friend at the time and I was honest with my feelings and she gave me the brush-off. But really nasty, like: “You are ugly!”. I know that was bad and I laugh a little now, but it was tough at the time. After some time, in the school changing rooms, I started to look at the older boys in a different way. I started to feel attracted. It's funny because it wasn't my colleague's brush-off that woke me up to my orientation, but the truth is that it was from that moment on that something in me woke up, and I started noticing boys.

Have you ever tried to hide it from yourself?

No, I was always very... "If I'm feeling it, this must actually mean something." With myself I was always myself.

Are there any other memories or messages you want to share?

Above all, I think we should be honest with the people around us. If we feel like we have no one to turn to or vent to, I think we should be honest with our family members. Even if it seems more complicated.

What are you dreaming about right now?

I have a master's degree and a degree in theater and I would love to have the opportunity to succeed in that area, to participate in a film or series. Obviously, in Portugal it's complicated, but it's possible. We cannot give up.

Do you feel included in that dream? Do you feel like you could be yourself?

I feel I could, yes. More and more, we see actors who come out and reveal that they are gay, bi or non-binary and it seems that, in Hollywood and elsewhere, people are more open today. I feel that people can be themselves.

Do you have any concrete suggestions on how large companies can improve inclusion?

Create environments where people feel comfortable talking. It's not because I'm gay and that person is straight that we should be different. We must be treated like people. 

How do you identify?

Trans man.

What do you think of when you hear the word inclusion?

Comfort. The freedom of being somewhere, surrounded by people who don't judge us or look down on us. Who treat us the way we like to be treated.  We do not want to be treated as trans, gay, lesbian or bisexual people. We want to be treated like people. Of course there are situations, such as health topics, that we have to take into account. I don't go to a urologist, I go to a gynecologist. And people get a little distressed, especially when I say I've changed my name.

When you arrive at the hospital and say that, who gets more upset: you or the people?

I feel distressed for them! But I already “changed” my name a long time ago. Or rather, I added. I can't abandon the name my parents gave me, which is Eva. I'm Fausto Eva Lopes Silva. I just can’t. I like the name a lot.

And when did this phase of transformation begin?

At IKEA!  It was at the age of 21 that I started volunteering at ILGA in Lisbon. I had my girlfriend at the time here, and I started talking to other trans people and then I started to understand. "OK, maybe that's why I always cried my eyes out because I didn't want to wear a skirt. That's why I asked my mother to call me by male names and male pronouns”.

But did you feel that you had to be like that because of the pressure you were under?

As a teenager, due to pressure from family and society, I became very feminine. It was all very unconscious. I was very immature and for a long time I felt like a woman. I spent 3 years with a boy in an abusive relationship and I had to stop dressing the way I used to. I used to ride BMX a lot (I was the first girl to participate in a national championship), and also for that reason I wore a lot of baggy clothes, pants from the boy's section and that brought many problems, because people started commenting a lot. This is the dramatic part of the situation, because otherwise it has been a good experience, in terms of work and family and it was all very gradual. I was talking to trans people and realizing the process and the whole experience. It happened, working with less easy clients, that they treated me as Mrs.. But in these cases it's not even worth fixing.

But these are situations that you apparently handle well, right? Doesn't it bother you?

What can we do? What can we, trans people, do in conflict management? I only teach those who want to be taught. And for me, sometimes there are trans kids whose only identity is being a trans person, and that pisses me off. Because I'm not just a trans person. I'm Fausto, I like photography, I work, I like driving, I like going to the beach, I have my family, my friends. And there are people who live just for that, just for the suffering of being trans. And that's not good, because it puts such a heavy burden on the community and we are already very marginalized.

Where do you feel at home?

Right now, at my own home. And I also feel at home here, at IKEA, I have many friends here, I've been here for five years and I usually say that I'll only leave if pushed away!   Do you have any memories of when you felt out of place or not included? I left a band because they asked very invasive questions and made very derogatory comments. When I came out as a lesbian woman, I was very ostracized, and I really felt like a woman.

But do they ask you these things directly? It’s personal.

And these questions are very invasive. For me, for example, being asked what my name is doesn't confuse me at all. I can say the name my parents gave me. But there are people who take this very seriously, who don't say it, hide it. And we always have to respect that. But it is a very problematic question within the community. It is called dead name, in Portuguese: “nome morto”. It is really necessary to test the waters, to understand whether one can ask or not.

But do you say it?

It depends on the context because, there it is, my identity is not defined by being trans. I'm not one to come up and say: “Hello, I'm Fausto and I'm trans.”. Not that. I put myself on the line for the cause. But I don't consider myself an activist person because I find activism very problematic, especially in the trans community. I think the community, and right now the people who are at the forefront of activism, are very extremist. I like to be different without being different.

Do you see society putting up barriers to your future?

Not here at IKEA. In general, yes, although at the stage I'm at, that doesn't happen anymore. But in the initial phases, of hormone treatment, of all those changes, there is still a very strong social judgment. The look, the strangeness, the way to treat or greet.

What message would you like to leave to end our conversation about your journey. I can see that it was a happy journey, very accomplished.

Treat us like people, above all like people. Treat us like human beings, don't treat us with more respect or like poor things just because we don't identify with the gender we were assigned at birth.

And your family?

My mother is OK, although we have issues. My father took a long time to assimilate. He still calls me Eva many times. But I don't care, because my father is already 60 years old. And because I've always been daddy's girl.  With my grandmother it's everything - he, she, he, she, he, she, Fausto, Eva, Fausto, Eva - but I'm not going to ask my 92-year-old grandmother or my 60-year-old father. A grammar rule is not going to change who I am at all, because the most important thing is what I am and how I feel. As much as they call me a female pronoun, I will always be a man. And at the end of the day, that's what matters. At the end of the day I feel accomplished. Go to a barber and not go to a hairdresser.

And here at IKEA?

At IKEA there is not the slightest difference. I'm Fausto, period. Here I feel at home, because for everyone, especially the people I'm closest to, there's nothing behind. It's a big offense for most of the community to say, "You don't look trans." I'm glad I don't look look trans, the goal was accomplished. 

How do you identify?

I identify as female and lesbian.

Where do you feel at home?

I feel at home when I'm with my partner and my kitten, Julieta.

Can you give an example of what your everyday life was like before coming out as a member of the LGBT+ community?

My life has not changed much, it was already normal, the only thing different was  inside myself. And I needed to share it with family and friends. From then on, I felt an enormous freedom, and a weight that I didn't know I had inside me.

And when did that happen?

I came out at 21 years old. I dated guys up until that point, but at that age I fell in love with my current girlfriend. Who is still my girlfriend, it was love at first sight. It's love for life. And there's no going back. I was in a bad place from 20 to 21 because I didn't come out...

But why?

Because he didn't accept myself. It wasn't even because I wasn't accepted by the people around me, it was because of me. And I had friends, especially a friend who is bisexual, who told me that I had to say it, open up, assume it and let it flow. That's what I did, and here I am, peaceful and happy in a relationship.

How was your relationship with your parents, friends and family? I don't know if you want to talk about it?

I don't like to omit or lie. For my friends it was easier, but for my parents and my partner's parents the process took more time. Even being Catholic families, the acceptance of both was very good, and that was the best thing that could have happened to us.

Yes, and then most of the stories that we hear are always negative, never positive.

Right. First there is always a tragic story and that never goes well. I can say that my story is very peaceful and happy and I think we have to draw attention to positive things.

What is your best inclusion memory?

It was with my current partner's family. We feel treated by both families like a normal couple and that's wonderful. We were very afraid.

What do you think other members of society could do to make you feel more included?

One thing we can change is the way we talk to children, because they are the foundation, aren't they? The way we treat children, for example, when we ask a boy for his girlfriend. It shouldn't be like this. They should ask: “Do you have anyone? Do you like someone?". It is important that they feel free to choose and to be who they really are. What's wrong with a boy wanting to wear pink clothes? What's the harm? They shouldn't ban it. A girl wants to play with cars and what's the problem? It's just toys, clothes, colours. It's for everyone.

I don't know if you want to share any old job stories when you felt you weren't included in?

I've never had bad experiences at work. After I came out, it was always very peaceful. At IKEA, we feel at home. We do and say what we want, within the bounds of respect. It is a company unlike any other.

What are you dreaming about right now?

On a professional level, I want to continue to evolve, to have new opportunities and new experiences, like this one for example. This experience is something new for me, it was the first time I participated in this project and I decided to participate and I was one of the selected ones. It's fun, we meet other people, we know other stores and I, who come from Braga, feel that it's different. I want to keep working at IKEA, and keep making my way. I feel very good here.

Do you have any concrete suggestions for something IKEA and other big companies can do to improve inclusion?

Projects like this. Campaigns that show that there are people of all kinds working in the company. That's perfect. 

Would you like to leave a message or a comment? Anything you want to add?

Coming out is not a matter of courage. It's a matter of timing, feeling like the time has come. That's where courage kicks in.  

What is an ally and not a community person?

The LGBT+ community parades have always been more related to sexual orientation, but increasingly include other issues such as colour, race or religion. As I started to get more interested and researched the community activity, I got involved.

But is there a specific moment that you can point out?

The moment I was a mother and later I joined IKEA. I worked in multinationals where there was no respect for colour or sexual orientation. We were just numbers. I was stigmatized as a single mother, black, who has studied to escape her social reality, and I applied to IKEA thinking I wouldn't have a frontline position, because of who I am.

And did you feel that the fact that you were a mother was relevant, because this process started from childhood?

As much as we broaden horizons at school or at work, a child alerts us to the importance of being an example. So what could I do? I was raised hearing: "don't mingle". And I realized how far the community ends up helping, why they go out into the streets to raise their voices. When you are in community, you know that there is someone in front of you and fighting with you. That feeling makes the difference.

Do you feel that you can now raise your daughter in a more open way and not out of fear? That we are moving towards a more positive place?

Yes, especially at school. Since I was a little girl, I realized that the “script” we followed at school excluded several topics that prepare us to face society. We didn't have internet like we have today. I feel that we have a long way to go, but we are on a good direction. My daughter is six years old and since the age of four I have heard that the toilet is for both, girls and boys. We begin to live in a society where not everything is just pink or just blue. And it was also through my daughter's experiences and questions that I ended up opening my mind. The age of the "why" already has broader questions. We are already beginning to see a way that is not so pink/blue, boy/girl, but one of people.

In practice, what is the role of allies?

I see myself as much more than a sympathizer: When I come to this company, anyone, external or internal, has the same behaviour of looking you in the eye, saying “Hello!”. In that contact I feel that I belong.

What do you think is the role of IKEA and other big companies in improving inclusion?

It's talking and offering trainings. When there are teambuildings, for example, bring this information as a topic. When talking about these topics, we are exchanging ideas and people are no longer just sympathizers and become part of the community. IKEA is a company where more and more co-workers, customers and supporters of the brand are discussing these topics. Here, whether in an online or face-to-face format, we have the opportunity to speak and even have an active voice.

What do you think of when you hear the word "inclusion"?

Being treated like people, regardless of sexual options, colour, religion... It's whe we feel: "I belong here".

Have you ever felt excluded?

Sadly yes. I've been working for 17 years and even those who thought they were including me weren't. They thought: “OK, she's educated, she was born here, she speaks Portuguese well, she doesn't have the accent, she's not eccentric”, but as much as they said they were including me, they weren't. At IKEA, on the contrary, it doesn't matter if I'm in uniform or not. If I'm here, I belong. Regardless of what we are doing, we always stand up for the company and I immediately notice the difference.

Have you ever had any experience of discrimination or prejudice related to the sexual orientation or gender identity of another person around you? How did you handle it?

Yes. I have always been linked to sports, and this has often generated comments related to sexual orientation. I had colleagues who were discovering their sexuality at the age of 14 or 15 and who were disrespected for that. I was often a mediator in these conflicts, and I ended up hearing comments about being black.

As an activist, do you spread information about the community to the people around you?

Yes, even in my family I always try to play an active role. There is always a male or female cousin or a sister who is in the phase where they don't know what they want and feel some inner conflict.  I have always been “the revolutionary”.

How do you think IKEA can support the LGBT+ community and promote diversity and inclusion in its products and services?

IKEA is already doing this, for example in recruitment processes, where no one is stigmatized for their appearance, sexual orientation, whether they have tattoos or piercings. There is no such barrier.

What do you expect from the future?

I hope these issues are no longer a problem. I hope that companies promote equality in a natural way. I believe it will happen, although we still have a long way to go.

Do you believe then that it will be a slow and gradual process?

Yes, but intensive. Spoken and lived, both by children and by the elderly. More and more people are stepping out of their comfort zone to play an active role in society. A lot is changing, albeit gradually.

Is it important to question?

It is important to question and experience what we question. It's not just questioning. It is not enough to create the theme and discuss it. You have to live accordingly.   

How do you identify?  

I prefer to use they/them, but I don't vibe with the concept of having a gender identity at all. I feel like if you were to describe me, my gender would be the least important aspect of who I am. 

Could you evolve that?  

I identify as non-binary and people have different views of what that is. Some people see gender as a scale between masculine and feminine, and then non-binaries somewhere in between. But I see it more like a triangle, with masculine, feminine and non-binary in different corners. So non-binary isn't on a scale, it's outside of the spectrum. 

Is it difficult when people don't recognise the way you identify?  

I have no issue with being misgendered. I understand that most people see me as a man and personally I have no issue with that. But it's a personal thing and I can't speak for all non-binary people. 

So how does this way of seeing gender affect you? 

I feel like the assigned identity I got at birth, being a man, it kind of fits me – but it for sure doesn't fit all of me. To me gender is a personal thing, you can identify in any way you want, and you can be whatever you want. This makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is that the eight billion people on this planet should be able to fit into just two predefined groups on the opposite side of a spectrum. That sounds just utterly weird to me. 

Could you describe how it feels for you to define the way you do?  

To me, being identified as a man seems so restraining. Being a man dictates what kind of body type I should strive for, who I'm allowed to have romantic or sexual relationships with, how my voice should sound and so on.   As a non-binary, I don't feel that I have to fit into a stereotype, I can just be myself. 

What do you think of when you hear the word inclusion?  

From a political point of view, I believe that you can't have real inclusion without a diversity of people taking the decisions. The traditional politician from a well-off and well-connected upper middle class will in most cases not be able to grasp what it's like to be poor and will take political decisions that affect poor people negatively. It works similarly with a government mostly made up of men. It will make decisions that benefit men and not women. 

So, no inclusion without diversity?  

This is so important. We can make much more informed decisions if we include a broad palette of different beliefs, cultural backgrounds and gender identities. That's key. And to give a concrete example. Why is it so hard, and in most countries impossible, to get a passport with your real gender? A passport that states that you're non-binary? To me, that's just because there are not yet non-binary people in power. Because when there is they will realise its importance and understand how much it hurts. And things will change.   

Where do you feel at home?  

The vibe of the people I'm surrounded with is what makes it a home or not, and it doesn't depend on the place. I also feel at home when I'm creating something. When I'm sewing or making jewellery.   

Creativity is important for you?  

Yes, I like to create and I also feel like I'm constantly creating and evolving my gender expression. For example, I'm not a heavy user of makeup, but I like to explore its possibilities. I also like to wear crop tops because it enhances my masculinity. It lets me explore a masculinity that is my own.  

Do you experience situations when you don't feel included? 

Of course. Often. I've also been attacked and physically assaulted. It's one of the reasons why I might wear a large puffer jacket, or a big hoody when I'm out in public. I hide who I am because I want to stay safe. 

How are these experiences affecting you?  

To me, being attacked highlighted how far we still are from real inclusion. The fact that just because I dress differently or act differently makes some people want to kill me? How weird is that? Being queer is still living with the knowledge that your rights and even your existence are constantly up for debate. It's not yet the view of the whole society that you can just be who you are. It makes me really frustrated that it could be up to other people, and sometimes a political question, if I should exist or not. 

Have you also experienced being fetishised?  

That's something else of course, but it can be annoying. I don't want to call out a specific group, but, well, straight girls in the gay clubs...I've been approached by women who are like: "You could be my gay best friend and we can go shopping together" What's up with that? Then they only project their vision of a gay person that they've seen in a chic flic from the early 2000s directed by a straight guy. They don't see me or who I am, and that can of course be tiresome.  

Do you have more examples of this?  

Yes, quite often I've experienced that just because you are gay, people seem to think it's ok to casually ask very intimate questions. Well, I don't ask you to describe your intimate life in the same way as you might talk about choosing milk or yoghurt with your cereals. What happens is that I'm seen as my gay identity or sexuality instead of a real person, and no one wants to be treated like that.  

Why do you think it takes so long to change society and people's perceptions?  

It's a difficult question, but one major problem is individualism. People simply don't interact with persons who are different from themselves. That's especially true online. The algorithms feed you more of what you already see. You get radicalised by your own feed. This is dangerous, and another thing that people in power right now seem to have a hard time understanding. 

Do you have a message to big companies around inclusion?  

Hmm... Well, maybe they could start by not making such a big thing out of people's gender. For example, it's great if a political party or a company hires someone who's homosexual or transgender. But is less cool when they push this person forward like an excited schoolteacher showing off the new kid in front of the class. "Say hello to this new weird kid, isn't it great to have him in our class" I'm sure they do care about inclusion, but when it's not done in a mindful and respectful way it feels offensive or just stupid. I mean, these people are hopefully hired because of their competencies, not because of their gender.   

That's noted. Anything else you believe the rest of us should know about the young LGBT+ generation?  

I don't think you can make a workplace inclusive and then start hiring queer people. I think this process has to happen simultaneously and together with the people you want to include. I would also just like to send all workplaces a friendly reminder about the fact that there are quite many of us and very soon we're in your companies and institutions. Don't restrain yourself from the immense capabilities and potential that the queer community holds. We're here. We're queer. And you have to deal with it. 

Anything you want to add?  

We've talked a lot about gender, but as I said in the beginning, gender shouldn't be so important. The way you experience love with your partner is the same way I experience love with mine. You don't have to understand everything about me to understand that. This knowledge should be all we need to respect and treat each other like humans. To move forward and beyond the discussion about gender to more pressing issues. For example, we got a planet to save! 

How do you identify?

I identify as a gay man. Not more complicated than that, but at the same time I have for the most part of my life not been able to say this. 

Where do you feel at home?

Right now I'd say that I feel at home at IKEA, in the store where I work. I feel that I can be myself at work, and it’s an incredible feeling of freedom.  

What kind of feelings do you get when you feel at home?

I feel such a relief, almost like I could fly when I realise that I don't need to hide who I am or be afraid that someone finds out. 

Could you give an example of what your daily life looked like before?  

During all my years in school, I could never show my true self. The way I laugh, the way I talk, the way I walk. I had to hide all that and act like I had a role in the world's longest film. 

Do you have a memory of when you felt understood and included?

I have a very warm memory from my first job. I worked there with an older woman and when we talked about relationships she said she had a partner. One day when we had time for a real conversation she told me that her partner was another woman, and it was such an awakening for me. It was the first time I spoke to someone who dared to tell me the truth about their life and that created a strong bond between us. I felt I could be myself with her. 

What do you believe the rest of us in society could do to make you feel more included?

I do believe our world would be a lot better if all of us cared enough to listen and act more tactfully towards other people. An even more concrete thing would be to be more careful in our language, for example, use the term partner instead of assuming that all boys have a girlfriend. It would also be great if people started to ask which pronouns someone prefers if they are unsure. These are small actions that will have an enormous impact on inclusion in society. 

Do you think your future career could be negatively affected because of who you are? Previously, when I lived in Russia it would have been impossible for me to have a career if I didn't hide my personality. Even at IKEA in Russia, I had real troubles with my manager who was very religious and homophobic, and I was shamed for not being "a real man" and things like that. It was painful and difficult.   

What does your work life look like now?

I love it! I work at an IKEA store in central Paris, and I feel included and relaxed about being who I am. What I also like about working for IKEA is that it's a company that celebrates pride. And not just during pride season, it's part of the IKEA culture to take a stand for inclusion and LGBT+ rights, and this makes me really proud to work here.      

A last question. What do you dream of right now?

I think a lot about living more calmly. Here I feel like I can just be me. I want to become a full-fledged citizen and find a place that I can call my home. I don't want to be famous. I don't want to be rich. I just want to live.   

How do you identify?  

It's a simple question for me. I'm a man. That's all.    

What's inclusion to you?  

It's about realising that we're all different and accepting those differences. If we could see that as the asset and positive thing it is, then we'd live in a better and more innovative world.   

Where do you feel at home?  

I feel at home when I'm with my close friends. I also feel at home in my home, not the home of my parents, but in my own apartment. There I feel relaxed and safe.   

Is that a group of friends you've known for a long time?  

Yes, I'm lucky to have a group of very close friends. They have been with me from the beginning and accept me like I am. I've had a lot of problems with my parents, and my friends have supported me through this. My friends are my chosen family, I love them so much, and I wouldn't be here without them.   

We don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but what's your relationship with your family?  

I don't mind talking about it, I grew up in the suburbs of Paris and I'm from a Muslim family with Algerian roots. My parents have very negative views on homosexuality, and for several years I listened to them and tried to fit in. Tried to be like they wanted me to be. But when I was 18 years old, my best friend came out as lesbian. She was so strong and told me: "you need to be who you want to be. I'll be there for you. I, and the rest of your friends, will support you".   

What's your relationship with your parents like today?  

It's complicated. Now we talk with each other again, but we never talk about my life or that I'm gay. They know that I like men but say that they don't want to talk about it.   

Do you have a specific memory of when you felt you had to hide who you are?  

Yes, many. When I lived with my parents, and I was preparing for a night out with my friends, I would hide the clothes I wanted to wear from my parents and put them on at my friends' place. Like a pair of short shorts for example, that I know my parents would disapprove of.  

Any other memory you'd like to share?  

I played handball when I was younger. I loved the game, but in a team like that, I couldn't show my real personality. I told myself that I'll never show anyone there who I really am. I was just going to show them my skills on the court. When I think about it now it makes me a bit sad, and it wasn't comfortable hiding my true self like that.   

When do you feel you can be your true self?  

When I'm at a party with my friends. Where I can do whatever I want, and be whatever I want, without anyone judging me. I just feel so light, free and happy.   

What could the world around you do to make you feel more included?  

I would like people to realise that we all have things that we struggle with. This is important because it also unites us humans. If we made an effort to see the person in front of us, to ask a question without judgment, then we could create real understanding and empathy. And that's what inclusion is all about.   

What do you believe your future career will look like? Do you feel that society around is putting up barriers because of who you are?  

Because of my background, I've learned to switch between being my true self, and a version of me that never shows who I am. Is it a good thing? No. Is it the right thing to do if I want to build a career? Well, maybe. I work for IKEA now, but if I would like to work for another company in the future? Then maybe I would have to hide who I am.   

Do you feel you can be yourself at IKEA?  

To me, IKEA is a workplace that truly cares about inclusion. I feel that I can be myself at work. I can't speak for everyone, but that's how it feels to me. For example, I can wear a rainbow-coloured key lanyard every day around my neck or in my pocket. That's very important to me. Sometimes customers ask me about it, and then I tell them that IKEA is a company that takes an active stand for inclusion. That makes me proud to work here.   

How does it make you feel?  

It just makes me feel like I can be myself. I also feel supported by my managers to be who I am and take this role. I'm a leader in my store around diversity and inclusion, and when I can be myself at work, I believe I set an example. I hope it makes it easier for other people working in this store, and in other IKEA stores in France, to show who they are.   

Have you experienced any negative situations at work?  

Not from colleagues, but from customers, yes, for sure. I've had customers calling me bad names or saying hurtful things. But I can somehow shut that out because I see them for what they are. Ignorant, mean and maybe also afraid. I don't engage in that kind of situation, I walk away from it, and I don't let it affect me. But I also know that not everyone can experience something like that and don't feel bad or hurt about it.   

Do you have a concrete suggestion of something IKEA and other big companies could do to improve inclusion?  

Yes, I believe it would be great if we at IKEA could start using preferred pronouns within our company. I'm sure it's the same situation in most big companies, but we and IKEA, and the rest of the world, just need to realise that there's not just female or male. There are so many more ways to define who you are. 

This is important, can you explain it further?  

If we start to use pronouns, everyone will become more aware that a lot of people don't fit the binary female or male stereotypes. That you now instead can be who you truly are. It may look like a small thing, like a few extra characters in an email signature, but it has a huge value and importance. I would feel so proud if IKEA encouraged us co-workers to use pronouns because this means that we would recognise the fact that there are now more than two ways to be in this world. 

How do you identify?  

To me it's very clear. I'm transgender, male to female. I want to become a woman.   

What do you think about when you hear the word inclusion?  

To me it's something rather personal. Society today is more open than before, but I still can get that feeling, like I should fit in. For example, when I started at a new school, I was very nervous talking to new people because in the back of my head I can't stop thinking about that I'm a trans person.  

What were you thinking?  

I thought that they wouldn’t like me because I'm not like them.   

Where do you feel at home?  

I'm very lucky now to feel at home with my family, because they have become very open minded. But I think I feel the most at home with my best friend. She's also a trans person and with her I can talk about everything. When I'm with her I just feel right. 

Do you have a memory of when you've felt out of place, or not included?  

Something I've experienced when I've started a new job is that people have come up to me and asked: "Are you a man or a woman?" That makes me really nervous, and it just hurts. This is a very personal question and I don't know the person, and don't what, or if, I should answer. It's not like I walk up to people I don't know and ask them intimate questions. 

How would you like people around you to act?  

I would like other people to be a bit more open, to accept and understand that I'm just a human like them. I'm a bit shy, but I'm also an open person, I like to meet new people, and of course we can talk about more intimate things when we get to know each other and feel comfortable together.  

If you started a new job, what would make you feel included?

I believe that if people understood that my gender is possibly the least interesting part of me I would feel more comfortable. I'm a person with skills, knowledge and experiences. But also a person with flaws and insecurities like everyone else. Maybe if people were a bit less judgmental and instead just asked: "Hi, who are you?" Then that would make me feel a lot more included.  

You're young, but do you see the society around you putting up barriers when it comes to your future career?  

I do believe it will get better because when my generation gets older and enter the workforce there will simply be more of us. In the future, a company will focus on my skills and not my gender, or the way I dress. My generation will bring this change, and even if people don't listen to us right now, we won't go away. I hope that this will push for acceptance from the rest of society. 

What would you like to do when you finish school?  

I'll probably move to Stockholm, I would like to try life in a bigger city, but I don't want to leave Sweden. I moved here from Thailand when I was seven years old, and I feel at home in Sweden because it's an openminded society. 

Do you have a concrete idea of something that would make you feel more included in society?  

Yes, both in workplaces and in society in general, I believe we need toilets and locker rooms that are gender neutral. I don't feel comfortable in the men's locker room, but sometimes when I choose the women's room to change clothes, I get a lot of questions, like: "Why are you here?". And that makes me very nervous and I don't feel good about it. But right now there's really no place for me to go. 

You're still in school, is that a place where you feel included?  

Yes, I go to a school in Lund that takes an active stand for the LGBT+ community. No one would ever ask me if I'm male or female, because there are just so many different kind of people in that school. I feel really good when I'm there. Like, I'm at the right place. I feel at home.       

How do you identify?  

I'm a non-binary trans person. Usually, when people hear the word trans they think about binary trans, and that's why I make sure to put non-binary in front of it. And I'm polyamorous, which means that I don't practice monogamy.  

Can you explain a bit more?  Being polyamorous means different things for different people. But for me it means that I am not exclusive with my partner and that I practice non-hierarchy, meaning that my romantic and deep non-romantic relationships have the same importance in my life.   

Could you give an example?

Sure, for example, it's normal to take a day off to take care of a family member or if your partner is ill. But if your best friend is sick and you're like: "I'm sorry, actually I can't come to work today. I need to work from home because my best friend is sick" Then I've been met with questions: "Why? Who are you? Like their mom?" No, I'm not. But it's my best friend. I love them. I'm going to take care of them.  

What does inclusion mean to you?  

To me, inclusion is about the way that you position yourself in a community and about how you extend your privilege to others. Privilege is important, I think nowadays people can feel attacked by the word and feel like the term is used to shame them. A privilege is a tool, and if we are open enough to understand that there's always a viewpoint beyond our own that has equal worth and equal value, then we can use the different privileges we have to include and support people around us.   

Where and when do you feel at home?  

That's a really good question because I think that inclusion also has this emotional side. About feeling seen and feeling understood. I'm a lot of things. I am what I identify to be. But I'm also Jewish, I'm an immigrant, and I'm the first person in my family to have a higher education. I feel included when other people don't just judge by what I look like, but when they care to listen, ask questions, and have a conversation.   

Are there any physical places where you feel at home?  

Yes, Malmö, Sweden where I live is a great city with several places where I feel included, places that give me a sense of calm. There's the bookstore and queer culture scene, Page 28, where I volunteer, but also the WHOSE Museum, Jesusbaren café, a climbing gym and the roller-skating park. 

Is the place you live also a place where you feel at home?  

This is for sure not a given, a lot of people don't, but I'm lucky enough to share a home with some of my best friends. You know, we have all these big things to deal with outside but when we come home, we can just be a bit grumpy and tired on the couch. Give each other a big hug if that's what we need. Cook each other dinner, or just eat chips and play a lot of board games.   

In your personal life, when have you felt out of place, or needed to hide parts of who you are?

I grew up in a conservative Jewish community, which means that I come from a community that is very religious and culturally aligned. I was assigned female at birth, so when I did things that weren't girly, there were a lot of questions.   

Was it more than just questions about you being different?  

Yes, when I got a bit older and started to explore how I expressed and presented myself in public, there was a lot of shaming for that. A lot of expectations about how I should behave, and the people I was supposed to hang out with. I'm 25 now, and it wasn't until I was 21 that I met a queer community and had this awakening. "Oh, is this what it feels like to just be yourself?" And even if I wasn't understood, instead of judgment I was met with a friendly question. "What's that all about, tell me more."  

How did your family react when you became aware of who you are?  

It has taken my family the last three years to understand. Understand how I want to be treated and how I want to be seen and spoken to. But I also must remind myself that it took 25 years for me to understand myself. All these things that I have to inform my own identity, they don't have. But they're willing to listen and willing to try. And they're putting in this effort with a lot of love. Learning is a part of growing and growing is always going to be necessary.  

What would you like to ask of people around you, the rest of us, who isn't part of the LGBt+ youth? 

The first thing would be to ask you to sometimes just try to talk with people that are different from you. Maybe through engaging in some kind of community work? We need to break our social silos, and I really believe that there's so much value in giving back to the communities that we care about. And if you also would spend some time informing yourself about how people live that doesn't share the same privileges as you, then we'd be on a good path.  

So smaller actions are important?

Yes, I believe that small things can make big changes. People might ask me why I don't use a certain word, why I believe we need toilets not just for males/females, and why there's a lot of talk about non-binary. But if they are open to listening and trying to understand why this is important to me, then that's a small thing with possibly huge implications.   

What kind of experiences do you have from your previous workplaces?  

I work in a technical field, and I was usually the only queer person in a room full of men. That was often not a comfortable situation. I feel very comfortable within myself. I feel very secure within myself, but I'm not sure about how other people perceive me and how they treat me based on that perception.   

But you've quit that job, right?  

Yes, and I'm growing and learning along the way. I'm 25 now, and I think the message that I want to give is: to surround yourself with people who believe in you. Find your community. You are the best gift to yourself.  

Could you evolve that?   

Earlier today I had a job interview, and I would not have had the confidence to apply for this job even half a year ago, because I was letting other people's perceptions limit me. I'm not immune to what people think of me. I, and other young queers, don't have this magic raincoat where everything just slides off. So, when we're not included, our self-esteem suffers. Our self-image suffers. We get hurt.   

What was important for you when you applied for this new job?  

That it's a company that has good values and a progressive attitude. I've realised that I can't hide who I am, if I feel that they can't include me as a person, then I don't want to be there. So, if the company can't see and respect me for who I am, then why would I put all my energy into working with them? But I'm also very aware that a lot of people don't have the chance to choose where and who they work with.  

What would you like to tell a big company like IKEA about inclusion?  

When I was growing up, there wasn't a lot of visibility around the queer communities. Now I perceive there to be more visibility and not a lot of inside representation (i.e., in hiring processes, team diversity, education background, etc) to create systemic, lasting change for marginalized communities. Pink-washing or rainbow-washing happens a lot. This is important. 

Could you tell us a bit more?  

I think it's important for the visibility to reflect the representation, and we mention that here, since visibility is often only the façade of diversity. Visibility is the company logo with a rainbow for Pride and representation is the diversity of people who work there year-round and the policies that support and reflect them.  

Do you have a concrete idea of how big companies can improve inclusion?  

There will never be real inclusion without a real diversity of people. I've heard about a recruitment practice where you don't just have a point system for how good applicants are, but for how diverse they are. If a company is serious about diversity, and they should be because it's key for innovation, then they need to factor in how they build more diverse teams. We often don't see or know what we are lacking, so hiring an outside expert can help us cover those blind spots.  Great, that’s noted.

Anything else on this topic?  

Yes, it's important to remember it's not going to be easy, and that the people who are spearheading change are going to need support. Because it's tough being the only person in the room, and not feeling that people understand you. They will know best themselves what kind of support they need.  

One last question. What have you learned recently?

Learning to love yourself, and find people who help love and support you, is super important. You're going to live with yourself for the rest of your life! The way you choose to look, express yourself and who you love is for you to explore. Learning to step away from social norms was hard for me, but now I wear both tight dresses and suits, and buzz cut my hair because it's so practical in summer and I like the way it looks. I've learned to grow into the person I want to be, and what a wonderful feeling of freedom that is.